Lolita
Dr. Savage discussed the book and films of Lolita in class on 2/15, as well as her research related to visual culture images of young girls or “Lolitas.” Some of you may have been upset or disturbed by what she discussed, some of you may have been really interested – both reactions are totally normal. Discuss your reaction below.
What was your initial reaction to the information Dr. Savage presented on Tuesday?
What did you learn from the presentation? Can you think of specific examples of the “Lolita” effect in popular culture – music, movies, tv, music videos? How might this popular image be harmful to girls and women?
What are the cultural and/or social implications of using an image, typically for profit, inspired by a book in which a self-admitted pedophile rapes a 12 year old girl?
Have you read Lolita or seen either of the films? What was your reaction? What are some of the differences you noticed between the 1962 version of the film and the 1997 version or between the book and the films? You can compare just the scenes we viewed in class.
This book is widely considered a classic – does it matter that its subject matter could be considered obscene or inappropriate? Do you think the films glamorize or legitimize pedophilia or rape?
Has Dr. Savage's work changed your view of this type of image? Why or why not? Would you try and educate someone else about the origins of this type of image?
Do you think the films or book deserve to be censored?
I found Dr. Savage's presentation very intriguing. It definitely changed my view on this type of image While I do enjoy the look like many other men, I find the origin very disturbing. It kind of ruined the look for me. I learned that this whole pornographic look came from a story where an older man was attracted sexually to his step daughter who was twelve years old. It's just plain sick. This brings to our attention that there are actually people like that out there. How the producer portrayed the young girl, as developed or undeveloped, was the biggest difference betweeen the two movies viewed in class. Society legitamized petophilia and rape, not these books and movies. They are glamorizing it though by making it look successful. I would not educate someone about the origins of this image becasue it ruins it! The films and or books do not deserve to be censored.
ReplyDeletewill.99
I have seen both of the films before I took this class, so I wasn’t as shocked at the contact as others, but I understand the reaction. Any, so to say “normal” person would be appalled by the idea of a 12 year old portrayed as a sex object. However this movie as is the book is a classic masterpiece that brings to light the reality of life. We might choose to ignore this phenomenon of child prostration and abuse but, it occurs all over the world to this day. Woman in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia get married at age 12 or younger. They are expected to have children as soon as they are able and live a life of service to their husbands. In Russia and in Eastern Europe child sex slavery is nothing new and has been on the raise for the past 21 years. Lolita is just a portray of that harsh reality that
ReplyDeleteDr. Savage's research was very entertaining. After reading the other responses and thinking a little more about the subject and image of this "Lolita" it makes me thing of how much people, and entertainment feminize women. You can google cheerleader, or any university and cheerleader and get millions of pictures of half dressed girls with make up on and bows in their hairs. I have respect for cheerleaders, I am not saying that what they do is easy- BUT how people have grown to see these women is entertainment for their looks. It just makes me look at things like this in different manners. I never had read or even really heard of Lolita before, and it is nice to be able to categorize these things as something. But, I think it is a disgusting trend that the industries are picking up on.
ReplyDeletedavis.3371
The lecture by Dr.Savage was both disturbing and enlightening. I had never really concerned myself in the "Lolita Effect", never really attributed the smaller waisted models to men seeking pre-pubesent girls. I'm sure the book does a fantastic job telling this story, but the simple fact that by typing a character's name from said book into google brings up countless pornographic sites as well as an entire world of underground pedophiles with something to relate to, simply shows me that banning the book in the first place may have been a good decision. This isn't to say that these people wouldn't be out doing the same actions without the book, but I just don't see how it helps anything.
ReplyDeleteschwartz.1696
Dr. Savage's presentation was gripping. I was shocked to hear of where the "Lolita" image came from. It made me feel sickened that the book was so accepted and that both movies do not portray the original story correctly. Its amazing to me that the origin of this image of girls has been well concealed from the majority of american society and the media. I do not think that banning the book in the first place would have made any difference, since banning something generally only makes people want to read it more. The Lolita Effect can be seen constantly in magazine's, especially for women, which causes the look to spread. It is also a look present in plenty of t.v. shows and movies. I am left wondering if the new trend of wearing bows and flowers in girls' hair could be connected to the Lolita image as well, since the look is childlike. The films of "Lolita" absolutely glamorize rape in my opinion and possibly set a bad example to girls about what is and isn't okay for a man to do. Its scary to imagine a girl seeing this movie and thinking it is okay for the man to rape her and allowing that to happen to herself!
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ReplyDeleteI have not seen any of the Lolita films. When Dr.Savage began your presentation I was taken back because the information was disturbing. Without previous knowledge on this subject it seems so outrageous to think of an old man being attracted to a young girl. Growing up in a country where this is wrong I was sickened when she told us that the actor in the newer version demanded that the fourteen year old girl be the one in the sex scenes with him that made me feel uncomfortable. The actor was not someone random, but a known person and that makes him seem like he is a creep just like he guy in the novel. The Lolita type of advertising now sticks out to me while reading magazines and seeing commercials. It is very prevalent and seems to work for clothing lines and even make-up distributers. I do not agree with the appeal to sexual desires because I think people should buy things because they want them not because they want to look like the "sexy" person in them.
ReplyDeleteShellhouse.8
Before Dr. Savage's lecture, I was unaware that there was a specific label attached to the this particular topic. I thought that it was shocking that the first lolita book was so popular especially for the time it was created. It actually is a little disturbing because most people who are interested in it are probably either males who are attracted to underage women, or women who have experienced something similar in their lives.
ReplyDeleteI have not read or viewed anything about "Lolita" other than what was discussed in class, but I think that the movies do legitimize pedophilia along with the other common consumer advertizements that were presented. By using underage women to attract consumers, it carries an underling message that there really is a real world attraction to underage females in society. It makes me wonder how many pedophiles would come out of the woodwork if it was not illegal.
This lecture was very entertaining. It was very interesting to hear about the Lolita effect because it is something that we see everyday but we never really think about it. Its simply a part of our everyday life or something that we are used too. I do not mean that we are used to older men being in love with younger women, I mean the fact that young girls are often very "sexified". Older women are even put in positions that often make them appear to be much younger then they are, which is something that I never really looked at before hearing this lecture. The most specific example that I can think of is the usage of the "school girl" image. In many tv shows and music videos these girls are very over sexified which is nothing like a real Catholic school where uniforms are worn.
ReplyDeleteHaving never seen either or the films or reading the book, I was shocked of how far away from the original story the two moves went. I understand that this is a touchy subject but it cannot be made to seem less than it is. The norms of the time were much different then they are now,we are much more open to that type of stuff even though it is illegal. Child molesters are the lowest of the low even in the prison system. I do not think that the book or the movies should be censored because this is something real that does happen in real life not just in a book or a movie. People need to be educated about this.
plymale.21
ReplyDeleteMy initiate reaction to Dr. Savages presentation was interest. It is disturbing but also very interesting. The specific examples I can think of that show Lolitas in popular culture are musicians such as Brittany Spears, Christina Agularia, and many other young singers. It was nice to learn that their is a reason artists and other people dress young girls like that it was very surprising. This popular image harms girls and young women in many ways. Males see pictures like this and then want all other women to look like this even though they are only fourteen and don't even have a womans body yet so it is unrealistic to have a body like that and be healthy. Having this image is completely wrong. I have not seen the movie or read the book. It is not wrong to consider this book a classic. Many books that are considered classic are very controversial. i think that is why those books are considered classics, they make people think and realize important things. Dr. Savages work has changed my view on these types of images, and yes I would try and educate other people about this so maybe it will stop. Having this image is harmful to everyone. It makes women and girls want a body that is unrealistic and very harmful to their health if they try and get a body like that.
ReplyDeleteWhen Dr. Savage first began her presentation on the Lolita effect, I was surprised. It was surprising because I didn't consider how much the media tries to give models in magazines or commercials, a young and childlike appearance. Also, something that interested me was there are "unknowing" and "knowing" Lolitas. I have not seen the full versions of either movie of Lolita, but I can categorize that the different versions portray either a "knowing" or "unknowing" Lolita. For example, the clip shown from the 1997 version, showed the young girl as innocent and unaware of the older man staring at her. However, the 1967 version portrayed the girl as seductive and aware as she gazed at the older man. Although, I haven't seen the full versions, it seems that the 1967 version, legitimizes pedophilia.
ReplyDeletealula.1
I personally found Dr. Savage's presentation a bit disturbing. I have two 14 twin sisters who look very similar to the girl who played Lolita in the 1997 film so it kind of freaked me out. I also work at a daycare in columbus so the portion of the presentation on child pornography didn't really sit well with me. I found it disturbing how just because how if a mother is already an established artist and calls it art then she can publish pictures that I and many others would call child pornography.
ReplyDeleteI did on the other hand find it interesting when she talked about the lolita effect in hollywood and especially in the music industry. I was very young when britney spears and christina aguilera made their music debut so it was interesting now as an adult to go back and analyze their careers and how they gained the attention of the public with their young but highly sexualized music videos.
Even though I do not support the books or movies I still believe it is their first amendment right to publish them uncensored.
spoerl.8
ReplyDeleteI definitely feel that the discussion on Lolita was very eye opening and even more surprising to me that this is part of the origin of young girls as sex symbols. I thought that it was very interesting that the book was a very popular one for its time. Today this idea of young women as sex symbols and simply objects to men is everywhere in out society. When Dr. Savage talked about the music industry today it was apparent to me that this “Lolita effect” has taken over the music industry and even the press. According to Dj Scinta, “ girls are objects to men”. I have never read or seen any of the Lolita movies, but from what I know and what I have seen, I can see why, a long time ago, the banning of the book may have been justified, however, today the Lolita effect can be seen everywhere and has only become more popular. I think that rape/pedophilia is being glamorized and because many may find this interesting and intriguing in a way, the movie and books were a topic of controversy. I think Dr. Savage’s lecture on this piece of work was very interesting and I would share it with someone, however I do not feel it needs to be censored since there is much worse things out there in our world.
Cheng Qian
ReplyDeleteDr. Savage's presentation was attractive to me. When I realized what she talked about, I felt that it was a common topic in a class in the US, because I know this phenomenon originated in the US, and it could really be considered not only a kind of psychological phenomenon, but also a type of humanity, so it can be made into an artwork. I learnt that the origin of Lolita was a novel, and there were two films to display this novel. This culture is extraordinary popular in East Asia, and a large number of girls make up themselves as a Lolita, because Asian men are always like girls seem like little girls not only for sexual reason but for looking and feeling. This image is extremely harmful for girls in Japan, since girls younger than 18 are more and more used in their porn industry and sexual club. I watched sections of those two movies after class. By comparing them, I found out that the main different between them are the figure of Lolita. Lolita in 1997 was more active and positive in sexual behaviors, and she played more natural than the one in 1962's film. The novel Lolita is a true classic, because it shows a kind of mind in a group of people in that early year. Maybe we will feel normal when we know someone addicted to little girls, but it is abnormal at that time. Therefore, this book is creative and describe a kind of preference at the same time. I don't think this book is inappropriate, since the story it described might happened in this world. After listening to Dr. Savage's presentation, I have a accurate definition and a full image of Lolita. I'd like to educate the origin of this type of image because of its realism.
luscher.6
ReplyDeleteMy initial reaction to the Lolita presentation was confusion. I had never even considered the sophisticated psychological research that would be put into something like this. I learned that there are two different types of Lolitas which ironically correspond to the two different Lolita movies. I learned about the profound effect that it has had on the pop star culture. It is the cause for girls to change their act form an innocent teen to a complete slut. This is harmful to women because it is turning the sexuality of illegal girls into an object, thus belittling their existence. I think that using a 12 year old girl as a rape victim for in a book for profit is not necesarily immoral. More than anything it is eye opening to those who are unaware of the Lolita effect. I have not seen either of the Lolita films. The 1962 version portrays a knowing Lolita. She is the instigator and should not be considered innocent. The 1997 version features the unknowing Lolita. She has no knowledge of sexuality and is considered completely innocent. I think that Lolita the book should not be considered inappropriate because it tells a powerful story about nothing that doesn't exist in real life anyway. I think that films do glamorize rape but for good reason. It is a serious matter and should be treating along the same lines as murder. Before I had never realized how how much this has effected our culture, and not just the girls. I don't think that either the book or the movies should be censored.
I had never know the idea of Lolita before class. The information was very informing but it was also disturbing especailly when it was brought up the idea about the little girls pagents and how older guys would show up just to watch. Topics like this get me very interested in psychology even thought i don't plan on into it here at school. When it comes to the book and movies it definitely seems like that in today's society it's all about making money and if a producer knows there is money worth making it doesn't seem like much stops them from making something that includes a horrible topic like this one.
ReplyDeleteAfter Mrs. Savage's lecture on Lolita in class to be honest I was a little disturbed. I just thought it was weird that it was acceptable to have books, movies and websites about it. What really surprised me was the website that parents sent pictures of their young daughters supposedly for "modeling" purposes. And after modeling companies said that they don't even look for young girls photos online it really shocked me. The Lolita lecture really raised my awareness on the subject, I never would have none that there is a world wide attraction of underage girls, which says a lot about our society. Luckily this issue is illegal because I pretty sure it would cause a lot of issues.
ReplyDeleteboone.111
dancy.10
ReplyDeleteMy reaction to the presentation was that of shock. What i learned from the presentation was what a Lolita is, prior to the presentation, i had never even heard of the term. One example of Lolita in effect in popular culture in music that was discussed in class was Miley Cyrus.
I have never read Lolita or seen either of the films, my reaction was shock, i thought it was a pretty disturbing thing to write a book, or make a movie about. Some differences that i noticed in the films was, in the later film from 1997, the creapyness of the older male was much more blunt, it was not up to the viewer to figure out that the guy had problems.
I think it does matter that the content of the film could be considered obscene or inappropriate.
No i dont think the film or books deserve to be censored because i think that if people want to view the movie, or read the book, then they should have the right to do so.